1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,080 Tonight, ladies and gentlemen, I am going to speak only about Hoke's cases, or at any 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:15,600 rate those that I or others consider to be Hoke's cases. This does not mean, and I stress 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:23,240 this, it does not mean that I regard all otherwise inexplicable sighting, landing and contact 4 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:28,840 reports as Hoke's. If I did so regard them, I would never have founded Cosmos in the first 5 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:35,840 place. However, it is a fact that a proportion, and I would say a fair proportion, are Hoke's 6 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:41,560 of one form or another, and it's part of this proportion that I am going to present 7 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:49,120 to you tonight and discuss with you. The Scoriton Mystery is a case on its own, and it is for 8 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,320 this reason that I compose the precy of the case that I hope you manage to get a copy 9 00:00:53,320 --> 00:01:00,040 of on your way in. Cosmos members should recognise it as pages 9 and 10 of their current journal, 10 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,480 at least those who have got the Cosmos journal yet should. Anyway, I shall leave the Scoriton 11 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:11,040 Mystery until last and then carry on with the story from where this precy leaves off. 12 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,600 Now, I am only going to speak tonight, either of cases I have had a connection with myself, 13 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,840 I hasten to add not in the capacity of Hoke's, or cases where I know the people concerned, 14 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:28,120 though there will be little or no question of the facts having become distorted en route 15 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:33,800 from their source. In other words, I am not going to attempt to pass judgement on any 16 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:40,560 of the well-known contactees, as with one exception, Dan Fry, with whom I was quite reasonably 17 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,320 impressed, I have never met any of them. Now, there are of course many different types 18 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:52,000 of hoax, and I shall include in this talk examples both of intentional and unintentional 19 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:58,680 misreporting and exaggeration. I shall also refer to various sighting and contact reports, 20 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:06,160 photographs, tape recordings and psychic manifestations. The point of those should be made that hoaxes 21 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:14,160 can be pulled with different intentions. That's a plain practical joke on a friend or friends, 22 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:21,560 to test out UFO societies and investigators, for publicity and notoriety, for financial 23 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,720 benefit, although it isn't usually likely to result, or because the hoaxer can't help 24 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:33,720 it. He or she is a pathological liar. Two other points should be made. There is the 25 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:40,160 possibility of hoaxes by space people or psychic entities, and I have lost so about that later 26 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:47,160 on, and also the point that it's possible for people to start a hoax with the best motives. 27 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,640 For example, to make up and broadcast sighting and or contact reports and forecasts of contacts 28 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:59,640 in a particular area, in the hope of attracting extraterrestrial attention by this means. 29 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:04,440 And I should perhaps make the point here that I do not particularly have Warminster in mind 30 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,680 when I say that. Certainly there are many misreports, bad reports and probably quite 31 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,320 a number of hoaxes there. But I should go on record as saying that Warminster is the 32 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:19,040 only place in the country where I've seen a UFO twice, and that the same goes for several 33 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:25,040 other people I know. Now you know, it occurred to me that when I was first drafting out this 34 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,800 talk, that if I wanted to have a few friends left afterwards, I'd better not talk about 35 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,640 all the cases of misrepresentation I know of. Indeed, they wouldn't be done, not if 36 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:41,640 I took two or even three evenings. So in fact I've done quite a bit of judicious pruning. 37 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,800 Even so, I think that perhaps one or two of the instances may well surprise you. So to 38 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:54,040 revert to cases, and incidentally, also to Warminster. Now just to show you how easy 39 00:03:54,040 --> 00:04:00,720 it is for even those in a responsible position to get into a hoaxing mood, the first skywatch 40 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:06,080 I ever went to some years ago, there were four Bufora committee members there, including 41 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:12,120 myself. And our immediate reaction when getting out of the car at Crockerton, the Warminster, 42 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:19,120 was, can't we think of a good hoax? This idea, however, was immediately dropped when we saw 43 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:24,600 a large, satin-shaped saucer low in the sky. After about ten seconds though, it turned out 44 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:30,320 to be a case of the would-be biter's bit, the corporate being the moon, refraction, and 45 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:35,280 a high, straight, whispered cloud that had neatly bisected the moon and deceived us. 46 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:41,360 As I said, talk of hoaxing was dropped from then on. Still thinking about Bufora committee 47 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,520 members, and in case you think I'm exempting Cosmos committee members, by the way, I ought 48 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,400 to point out that I haven't known them for quite so long and consequently haven't called 49 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:56,480 them out so much. Well, there goes the coffee and biscuits perhaps. However, as I said, still 50 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:02,520 thinking about Bufora committee members, just about the best saucer photo I've seen 51 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:07,440 was produced by one of them by the simple and well-tried expedient of photographing a 52 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:13,280 hubcap thrown up in the air. I hasn't read though that this was not done with the intention 53 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:18,760 of claiming a genuine sighting, but just to see whether such a photo could produce a genuine 54 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:25,760 actual type of photo, in point of fact it did. Now, our friend Fogel's photograph of 55 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:32,000 an alleged saucer, as most of you know, unfortunately made the cover photo of the book The Flowing 56 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:37,960 S saucer's story. And this, by the way, is one of the items I was in two minds, whether 57 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:44,480 or not to judiciously prune. I decided to leave it in though, as whilst it was connected with 58 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:50,240 a former Bufora committee, it was also told to me personally. Now, Flying S saucer review 59 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,880 publicly revealed this as a fake, and Fogel himself admits to it being one. Now, several 60 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:01,880 years ago, Fogel told verbally to a former Bufora committee member that this was never 61 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:08,560 told officially to my knowledge to the Bufora committee. Consequently, I was rather surprised 62 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,800 to learn that the Flying S saucer review editor considered this information to have been deliberately 63 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,720 withheld from public knowledge, which was not the case. And quite frankly, in view of 64 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,240 such concern about the truth being withheld, I'm rather surprised that Flying S saucer 65 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,360 review have never referred to the later facts discovered in the Bryant case, though in view 66 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,400 of what I've just said, I'm quite sure they were well aware of them. Yet, these two clearly 67 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:40,400 indicate a hoax. Not, in my opinion, a space hoax. Of course, you could take it that Fogel's 68 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:46,560 was a space hoax, and that he was under evil space influences when he made his model saucer 69 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:52,880 and he photographed. But if one assumes this sort of thing, then evil space entities can 70 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:58,120 be blamed for practically everything connected with our erring human nature. Though I suppose 71 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:04,200 it's really a nice thought that it wasn't me, it was only that evil entity, that sadistic 72 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:10,400 spirit or devilish diva that was looking over my shoulder at the time. Now, let me make 73 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,160 it clear, though, that I don't entirely dismiss the possibility of space or spirit hoaxes 74 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:21,240 occurring. My good friend Harold Chibit has in fact postulated the possible existence 75 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:27,080 of a psychic hoax barrier, similar to a light or sound barrier, which we may have to pierce 76 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:34,120 before arriving at the truth. What I do not think, however, is that we should cry space 77 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,800 hoax at every possible opportunity, when in fact in most cases it is almost certainly 78 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:44,600 hoaxing human nature. To do this is to denigrate our studies in the eyes of the very people 79 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:49,640 outside the saucer sphere we are trying to convince and impress. They're certainly not 80 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,120 going to go along with space hoaxes, they're just going to think we're trying to cover 81 00:07:54,280 --> 00:08:01,280 up. But to get back again to photos, and in this time movie film. Now a friend of mine, 82 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:06,800 quite long standing who lives in the Bexsey area, asked me over one night to see various 83 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:13,800 films, one of which he'd taken himself quite nearby. This particular one he told me in 84 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:19,080 advance that it wasn't a UFO and he asked me to guess what it was. The film lasted about 85 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,480 a minute and showed an object which appeared circular in shape and darted over from one 86 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,880 side of the picture to another, stopped and then performed a typical saucer like falling 87 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:36,880 leaf descent. Now had I not recognised the area, I would certainly have been fooled. 88 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:41,200 But having some local knowledge, I did recognise the place and said after the minute was up 89 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,400 that I'm willing to bet that that was over dancing park and you were photographing a 90 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:51,400 kite, which was in fact what he'd done. But there again it looked far more like a UFO 91 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:57,200 than a good many UFO pictures I've seen. There was absolutely no trace visible of any string 92 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,720 and it could well have been put forward as one of the comparatively few UFO films in existence. 93 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,320 They assured me that so far as he could tell nothing would have given it away even on a 94 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:13,760 detailed examination. Fortunately he was and is a very only strap, but think how many others 95 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:20,760 might not have been. Before leaving the photographic side of Hoaxing, there's one other thought 96 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:26,600 that occasionally crops up, this being when someone usually unconnected with any society 97 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:32,160 sends you in a photo they've taken or they say they've taken and asks for your comments. 98 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,960 This usually means that it's one they've made up themselves and you're hiding to nothing 99 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:41,960 with your reply. A particular instance of this occurred to me about 18 months ago when 100 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,800 someone in Scotland sent me down a photo of two fighters chasing a UFO in the middle 101 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,400 distance with some trees on the foreground and they just asked me for comments on the 102 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:57,320 photo they'd taken. I had a good look at it and then wrote back to them saying that though 103 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:03,000 I was no photographic expert I considered it to be a remarkably good photograph, probably 104 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,680 of three models suspended from a thread of some sort. But if they provided me with a detailed 105 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,720 report of the alleged sighting together with a negative of the photograph I'd be prepared 106 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:19,720 to revise my opinion if necessary. Well no sighting report was forthcoming but in due 107 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:25,320 course three copy negatives arrived, each showing the three aerial objects but in different 108 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:31,440 positions, presumably having been taken quickly one after the other. I took these round in 109 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,840 point of fact to Captain Mackay and we had an interesting half hour examining these projected 110 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:42,040 onto a screen. When it was found that in one picture the tailplane of one of the fighters 111 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:47,560 supposedly in the middle distance beyond and behind the trees just in one small spot it 112 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:53,160 overlapped a blanche which proved quite clearly that my original contention was correct and 113 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:59,160 that they were all models suspended on thread. So if anyone shows you photos of UFOs and 114 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:06,160 just ask for your opinion and is cagey about giving any other details be a bit cagey yourself. 115 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:12,280 Well let's now leave photographs and turn our attention to models. And here I must admit 116 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:19,280 to one rather flattening experience. You may well remember the hopes on the 5th of September 117 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:24,520 1967 which was quite widely reported in the press at the time and also in spaceling incidentally 118 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:30,760 later on where apprentices of the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough made six bleeping 119 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:36,640 smelly plastic saucers and dumped them in a line across southern England. Well one of 120 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:42,040 these was dumped on the Bickley golf course near Bromley in Kent and before it was confirmed 121 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:47,320 that they were all hopes is there was a lady interviewed on TV who lived in Bromley and 122 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:53,080 she said she'd seen the Bickley saucer swoop over her house during the night. Well a few 123 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:59,600 days later by pure coincidence I was due to give a talk on UFOs to a young conservative 124 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:05,280 group in North Bromley less than a mile from the actual spot. And of course I duly referred 125 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,440 to these hopes saucers and made one or two caustic comments about the lady who'd seen 126 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:15,800 this one performing aurebiotics. And I will always remember the rather plaintive female 127 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:22,800 voice which as soon as I paused interjected the words, that was my mother and that I 128 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:28,880 must admit rather took the wind out of my sail. Well I don't think one can look at allegedly 129 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:35,880 man made saucers models of full size without referring to John Searle and his slollows. 130 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:41,440 Well I've never met or spoken with Mr Searle so until I have I wouldn't like to give a 131 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,600 final opinion. However most people who have met him do seem a little cheery of going into 132 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:52,400 raptures about his claims and I would recommend to those who haven't already seen it. And 133 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:57,240 lastly one issue of the newsletter of the Society for the Investigation of UFO Phenomena 134 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:03,720 of Surrey some months ago in which a transcript of their interview with him was published. 135 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,640 The latest man made saucer to arrive on the scene is one mentioned recently both in the 136 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:13,480 Cosmos Journal and Space Link. This particular one was apparently the brain child of a Mr 137 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:20,240 Edward Jaggers of Glastonbury who had a B.S.C. after his lay on his note paper. This saucer 138 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:25,680 was found by the roadside on September the 26th last having a rotating white dome and 139 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:30,560 a coloured flashing light and giving out a humming note. It was three feet in diameter 140 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:35,720 and Mr Jaggers claimed that it had taken off whilst he was experimenting with it. To quote 141 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,240 from a letter from him he said that the craft uses a method of iron propulsion that is a 142 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,440 result of 20 years research. He also alleges that the craft that got away was too badly 143 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:51,240 damaged by police and forensic scientists to be put in working order. He states too 144 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:57,280 that he has partially completed the designs for a men carrying unit on which finances 145 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:03,560 permitting he hopes to commence construction soon. Well that was Mr Jaggers version. According 146 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:08,360 to the papers the saucer weighed 100 weight, contained equipment only sufficient to produce 147 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:14,240 the light, rotation and humming effects and had just been dumped there. They also stated 148 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,440 he claimed the saucer was worth 7000 pounds. Well I haven't met Mr Jaggers but he does 149 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,480 write quite a good letter so again I'll reserve judgement until I do meet him. His 7000 pound 150 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:31,720 claim has been described as extravagant. I'm not really sure that this is so when you 151 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:38,240 consider that John Searle talks in terms of a million pound mark. Also Mr Jaggers hasn't 152 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:43,760 at least produced the saucer as anyone seen one of John Searle's swallows. Quite seriously 153 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,080 though this does seem to be one of those cases where those who want to believe a fine saucer 154 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:53,000 has been made will believe it without further ado and those who don't wish to will alarm 155 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:58,840 the newspaper reports. Frequently a fatal thing to do and condemn Mr Jaggers out of 156 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,480 hand. Mind you naturally if anyone here has examined the Glastonbury saucer and found it 157 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,800 to be a load of junk all about their superior knowledge until then I'll keep an open mind 158 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:14,240 on it. I referred just now to newspaper reports and suggested they should never be taken as 159 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,600 gospel. There's another thing that should never be taken as gospel particularly where 160 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,600 hopes is, suspected hopes is and anonymous letters are concerned namely a postmark. 161 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,120 Mind you there is at least one exception to this rule and that's a postmark of Finsbury 162 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:36,120 Park North 4. Should you ever have the misfortune to have doubtful communications us labelled 163 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,240 it's a pound to a penny they'll come from the doctor in referred to in the Scorerton 164 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:47,240 mystery. I'll be speaking more about him later on. Now as far as London is concerned 165 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,240 it only takes half an hour or so by tube to convert a north or northwest postmark into 166 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,240 an east, south east or south west one so you can never hope to trace a sender by this 167 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:03,240 me. Just to illustrate the point not so long ago as a joke I sent an anonymous spaceman 168 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:09,480 contact type letter myself fully expecting knowing the recipient that despite it being 169 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,560 postmarked south end on sea they would have little difficulty in identifying the perpetrator 170 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,560 but this proved to be the case. So I received back a similar type of dismissive postmarked 171 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:24,560 Bracknell which was about a hundred miles off course so far as the sender's own address 172 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,560 was concerned. Well I think I've made the point but just as an aside and to emphasise 173 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:35,560 it about four years ago now I was going down to Devon on one of my trips associated with 174 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,560 the violent case and two chaps in my office asked me if I had post valentines to their 175 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:45,560 girlfriends whilst I was down there so as to give them an apparently impossible postmark. 176 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:51,560 This I duly did but no one was more surprised than I when having posted them in Exeter I 177 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:56,560 was duly saying several days later on that having seen that I had an ax minster postmark 178 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,560 on them. This one I must admit I've never quite figured out. Another point to bear in 179 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,560 mind with anonymous letters you know is that it's extremely difficult for the person sending 180 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:13,560 them to make sure that his or her writing cannot be recognised. This applies to typing too of course. 181 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,560 In fact every typewriter is unique in this respect. Consequently this is why anonymous 182 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,560 letters will usually arrive in very poor handwriting or sprawling capitals with spelling 183 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:28,560 states or the safest perhaps words cut out of newspapers and stuck onto another sheet. 184 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,560 I remember a couple of years back several before our members received anonymous letters from an 185 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:40,560 alleged colonel Jardine who apparently to say the least didn't think very highly of us and he 186 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,560 proposed to step in and put view for her out of business exactly how it wasn't disclosed. 187 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,560 However unfortunately for the gentleman concerned he typed these letters and I had collected 188 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,560 three of them from various people. They were obviously typed on the same machine for letters 189 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,560 all having the same peculiarities. And I looked through the before our membership application 190 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,560 forms and lo and behold one of these had been typed on the same typewriter. So I wrote to 191 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,560 this member saying we were having a bit of trouble with anonymous letters from his part of 192 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,560 London and I wondered if he would help us in our enquiry giving him some of the details. 193 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:21,560 That came a letter still on the same typewriter saying yes he would but I really shouldn't 194 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:26,560 rely on post marks. This one happened to be Walther's phone he was actually trying a double 195 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,560 bluff. Anyway I was now quite sure he was the corporate so I wrote back thanking him but 196 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,560 saying we'd now located the gentleman concerned by means of typing similarities and quoted them. 197 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,560 Saying we decided to take no further action unless further letters were forthcoming. 198 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,560 Ending the letter by writing that I hoped he was now feeling better. I think the message 199 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:52,560 got through because no more anonymous letters arrived. I've only ever had one anonymous 200 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:58,560 communication whose source I'd been unable to prove at any rate so far but you'll be hearing 201 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:04,560 more about this later too but it's surprising how much relevant information one can dig up 202 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,560 by visiting one of larger reference libraries for example Hobe and Westminster Central. 203 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,560 The local libraries are very useful too for checking names on electoral register. I've solved quite 204 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:20,560 a few problems as well. If you have your disposal in libraries, the world's telephone directories, 205 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:25,560 clerical, army, navy, air force lists and many others always useful for checking bogus 206 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:32,560 titles. You have professional and business directories and all sorts of useful information. 207 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:37,560 Now let me turn for a moment from actual hoaxes to exaggerations which whilst they're not quite 208 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:43,560 the same thing frequently bring about the same result. Namely being the cause of people believing 209 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:49,560 something that is not actually so. Now some months ago here it was at a meeting it was stated 210 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,560 that a young man in England investigating this particular aspect of ufology had discovered 211 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:01,560 the existence here of six different cases of space children. Well even from the meager details 212 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:06,560 given I could pinpoint who was referred to. It is in fact a cosmos member who had spent a 213 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:12,560 greater deal of time investigating both this aspect of flying saucers and the Cynthia Eiffelton 214 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:18,560 case as well. His name is not secret by any means and he's written to quite a number of 215 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,560 journals asking for their help. In fact he is a Mr Paul Gregory of Newcastle under Lyme 216 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:30,560 and to my knowledge he's discovered the existence only of one, not six, one suspected case of 217 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:37,560 this kind. And both he and I agree that even this is a pretty doubtful one. Well now I've been 218 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,560 nutting away for quite a while about various aspects of hope thing but my main thing tonight 219 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:48,560 will be the different angles of the Scoriton mystery. I'll be speaking generally and not 220 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:54,560 confining myself to Brian so I'll now just refer quickly to one or two other items not 221 00:20:54,560 --> 00:21:00,560 connected with Scoriton and then so to speak get on with the main course. However let's turn 222 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,560 for a moment to tape recordings. And here just as I haven't referred to the controversial 223 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,560 contactee cases in the states of which I've no first hand knowledge neither am I going to refer 224 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,560 to the varieties of seven inch spools of tape that are also allegedly messages to men of 225 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:20,560 earth and that sort of thing. Each must be their own judge of these. There are however two 226 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,560 reasonably well known alleged occurrences of this nature in this country. Those are Philip 227 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:31,560 Rogers and those in the Scoriton mystery. Scoriton as I said I'll be coming to shortly. 228 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,560 So far as Philip Rogers is concerned many of his recordings are faint which a lot of you know 229 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,560 and one must of course bear in mind that to compensate for his lack of sight his hearing is 230 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:48,560 ultra sensitive. However whilst it must be agreed that some of his items are open to question 231 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,560 it must also be pointed out that although some might put them in the category of hopes is 232 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,560 albeit unintentional Philip himself does do the utmost amount of checking possible to ensure 233 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,560 that he can find no ordinary explanation. And I know he will be the first to eliminate one of 234 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:09,560 his claims for which he found such an ordinary explanation. It should also be pointed out that 235 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:15,560 at least three of his recordings including his well known time check have been regarded as 236 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,560 inexplicable by all those hearing them so far as I'm aware. Though so whilst I might well be 237 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,560 biased in as much as Philip's a friend of mine I certainly don't regard his recordings as hopes 238 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,560 intentional or accidental though as I say neither would I automatically say they're all coming from 239 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:38,560 space be. Before finally arriving at Scoriton I'm just going to say a few words about psychic 240 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:46,560 aspects of ufology. Well again the field is wide open to hopes. These aspects mainly fall into 241 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:52,560 forms of poltergeist activity, messages and so on received whilst in trance and messages 242 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:59,560 received via Ouija board or somewhat something similar. Tempting though they are I'm going to 243 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,560 omit poltergeist activity and also trance messages as I could scarcely say much about these 244 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,560 latter without referring to the aetherian society from the Reverend Dr George King. I have no 245 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:16,560 intention at the moment of getting so embroiled. Ouija board messages are. These I can speak 246 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,560 off from personal experience and you find you know quite frequently you get some quite 247 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,560 relevant information mixed up with some of the most horrible loads of old codes while it's 248 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:32,560 possible to come across. Whether the information one gets is true or false it's more often 249 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:38,560 nothing capable of proof that sometimes you can get forecasts of UFO sightings or landings 250 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:44,560 usually the most inaccessible places and horrible times of day or night. Only in two such cases 251 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:50,560 I know of have there been any resultant sightings but then quite a lot one is unable to follow 252 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:56,560 up anywhere. Now suppose I can see there are four possibilities regarding information obtained 253 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:03,560 by this method or any combination of them. Firstly one of a group may be consciously 254 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:10,560 and deliberately directing operations. Secondly the results obtained may be directed by one 255 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:17,560 or more of the group subconscious mind. Thirdly some spirit or other entity may be controlling 256 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:23,560 the subconscious of one or more of the group. And lastly messages may genuinely be coming 257 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:29,560 from a psychic or extraterrestrial source. Personally I go for the second or third possibilities 258 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:35,560 or perhaps a combination of the two but each to his own you may be more nearly correct than I am. 259 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,560 Well despite what I've just said and before I finally do get to talking about Scottish 260 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:47,560 and known I can't resist telling you of two such messages obtained by a small group of us. 261 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:53,560 One concerned a lady who we managed to establish was in the middle of a Scottish field. 262 00:24:53,560 --> 00:25:00,560 Apparently also in the middle of the somewhat dubious process of patting bill which certainly 263 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:07,560 sounded rather peculiar until further questions elicited the facts that she was a vet and bill 264 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:15,560 was a horse. Another time we got in touch so to speak with for one of a better word a gentleman 265 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,560 from Uranus actually. I'm not sure whether he qualifies to be called a Uranian or a Uranusian 266 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:27,560 or for that matter anything at all. Anyway we are having considerable difficulty in ascertaining 267 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:34,560 his sex until finally we got a yes in answer to the question are you a hermaphrodite. This 268 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:40,560 of course made everything absolutely as clear as now particularly when we also established 269 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:49,560 that apart from us having green skin he, she, it or thy was also almost human in appearance. 270 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,560 It didn't help either that we kept getting long causes between question and answer. The reason 271 00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:02,560 apparently being that whatever it was was looking up the code. Thereafter I regret to say we were unable 272 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:08,560 to keep straight places as we were all trying to visualise a green skinned hermaphroditic Uranian 273 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:14,560 or Uranusian scurrying backwards and forwards to his captain asking for permission to look up 274 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:20,560 unclassified phrases and the diverse and current on Uranus of English as she spoke. 275 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,560 Well I think that's a fitting point to draw a veil over further proceedings in that direction 276 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:34,560 so without further ado, scoriton. Now as those of you who are familiar with the story will know 277 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:41,560 even without further development it was complicated in all conscience to start with. So rather than waste 278 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,560 time going right through the story again which would take up nearly the rest of the evening by itself 279 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,560 for the benefit of those who knew little or nothing about the case I made a condensed, 280 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,560 crazy of the story on the quarto sheets I trust you managed to collect as you came in. 281 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,560 Now this does cover the salient points of the case sufficient at any rate for anyone to follow 282 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,560 with a little added explanation and what I shall have to say about the further side of the story 283 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,560 so far as Brian is concerned. Now the time that the scoriton mystery was being printed and published 284 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:20,560 was the time when the first adverse points were being discovered about the story. These quickly became 285 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:26,560 a more and more numerous, are related in the sequel to scoriton, until it became obvious to me at any rate 286 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:32,560 that it was necessary to present these further facts in order that a balanced view of the case might be available. 287 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:40,560 So sequel to scoriton. Now just about three weeks before, note before, sequel to scoriton was due to be published 288 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:47,560 I had just reached the gate going to work in the morning when the postman handed me a very neatly tied package 289 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:53,560 which I dually took with me to work. Come lunchtime I took it out of my briefcase to undo it 290 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:59,560 and it seemed obviously to be a book, very professionally packed and I wondered who the heck was sending me one 291 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:06,560 since I hadn't ordered any. Anyway I removed the covering paper, opened the top of the cardboard carton 292 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,560 then realised it was a copy of the scoriton mystery and I wondered who on earth was sending me one. 293 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:20,560 Since I ought to know what was contained in it, as apart from anything else I had twice typed out the complete contents of the publisher 294 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:28,560 so I pulled it out and you can imagine my surprise when only half of the book came out, the top half, like that. 295 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,560 I then looked inside, saw the other part and a folded up note. 296 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,560 Well by this time one or two other people in the office were eyeing me in rather a peculiar manner 297 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:47,560 and it occurred to me that questions would soon be asked as it isn't really the custom in offices to produce a half book and start perusing it. 298 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:54,560 It also occurred to me that the note might possibly be an offensive one so I hurriedly replaced the half book 299 00:28:54,560 --> 00:29:01,560 and gave a sickly looking grin at those who were staring at me and tried generally to give the impression that I always ordered half a book at a time. 300 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,560 Not a successful in point of fact. 301 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,560 However when I reached home I read the note. 302 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,560 You've all got a copy of it I hope. Yes you have. 303 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:24,560 Anyway it was in undisguised handwriting which in itself is most unusual for an anonymous letter 304 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,560 and it contains those verses which I hope you've all read on the other duplicated sheet. 305 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:37,560 Now I say it contains the verses on that sheet but that isn't absolutely correct. 306 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:44,560 For when I had the sheet printed in 1968 I added a seventh verse to my own for reasons, Mayor. 307 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:53,560 This paid off to a degree but unfortunately not to the degree where I'm in a position to enlighten all on sundry with what actually occurred. 308 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:58,560 When I am, which will be when I have ample proof to convince others of what I believe to be the case, 309 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,560 this will be published in the Cosmos Journal and elsewhere. 310 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,560 Just one other general point. The postmark wasn't Hammersmith as I stated on the sheet. 311 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:16,560 The actual postmark was the borough London SE1 which happens to be the main sorting office for southeast London. 312 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,560 This again I altered for reasons of my own. 313 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:25,560 However let's have another look at the verse and see what can be gleaned directly from it. 314 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:32,560 Now first of all the reason I take it seriously lies in the name Markab, M-A-R-K-A-B. 315 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:40,560 It's too much of a coincidence that this little referred to star should have been singled out as a time when I had an article, 316 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,560 again an article which had not been published, coming out in the Buford of Joan. 317 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,560 And this article mentioned Markab four times. 318 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,560 Coincidences I normally distrust but this one was just too good to be true. 319 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,560 Next as I've also put on the sheet, Cromwell's Pub. 320 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:04,560 Now that wasn't mentioned in the Scottish Mystery so whoever wrote this knew the pub at home 321 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:13,560 where I'd frequently met Bryant and recorded him, had a plaque on the wall which all the legend Oliver Cromwell slept here. 322 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:20,560 So far as the verse one is concerned several suggestions have been made, all hypothetical, 323 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,560 I'm not considering myself with this at this juncture. 324 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,560 Verse two is self-explanatory. 325 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:32,560 Verse three is quite correct as far as the convincing voice goes and the reference to Brinsley Trinch 326 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,560 suggested to me a possible answer as to where Bryant might have picked up his and up his knowledge 327 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:46,560 that Adamski said he would return after death but not as a baby, which was known only known to Adamski's close friends. 328 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:53,560 Now don't misunderstand me there, I'm not for one moment suggesting that Brinsley Trinch has any connection with this at all. 329 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,560 But what would have been more natural say then for Desmond Leslie who was a friend of both 330 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,560 to have passed on Adamski's reincarnatory ideas from one to the other. 331 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:09,560 All it needs then is one of our plotters, friendly with Brinsley Trinch, 332 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,560 to have told him this in the course of conversation, or to have been told this rather, 333 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:20,560 but this information could have reached Bryant by word of mouth without any need of UFO literature at all. 334 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:31,560 Verse four certainly describes Scotty Newton, the self-styled Dr. Milton L. Newton, B.S.C., M.S.C., D.S.C. 335 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,560 I have some of this headed paper here for what it's worth. 336 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,560 I'll be reading from it a little later on. 337 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:45,560 And then in addition, it includes copies of the, is not in frequent grammatical errors. 338 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:51,560 Verse five, well I'll only comment that my mind is not by any means as puzzled now as it was in 1968, 339 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,560 and verse six I've already referred to. 340 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,560 Three points are to me the vital clues so far as the solving of this case is concerned. 341 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:06,560 These are, firstly, the glass file, which clue-wise must be held to be the crux of the whole thing. 342 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,560 Secondly, the Adelphos Adelpho message. 343 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:18,560 And lastly, the pieces held by Scotty Newton, which so exactly fitted those that we took to him. 344 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,560 The pieces that Bryant had allegedly picked up, I have them here, I'll show them later on, 345 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,560 had allegedly picked up after the second sighting. 346 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,560 There can, of course, only be one reason why they did fit. 347 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,560 That being, they came from the same thing. 348 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:39,560 And they were planted on Scotty in order that when Eileen Buckle and myself eventually got around to seeing him, 349 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:45,560 as knowing he allegedly had pieces of the mantel plane we were bound to do, we would cry Eureka, 350 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,560 which of course at the time we did. 351 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:55,560 Now, to give everyone a clearer picture, I'm going to give some brief details about some of the main characters 352 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,560 in The Scoir written mystery to show how they fitted into the story. 353 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,560 After the break, as I said, I'll be playing some recordings, and I think as I said before, 354 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,560 I can guarantee that you'll find those of Bryant and Scotty Newton particularly interested. 355 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,560 Anyway, first of all, Bryant himself. 356 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:18,560 Bryant, did you know, bear a considerable faceual resemblance to Adamski? 357 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:26,560 At the time of his alleged contact and sighting, Bryant was age 51, he was married with two daughters and a son. 358 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,560 Son was Michael age 16, daughter of Yvonne 11 and Evelyn 8. 359 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,560 Although I later discovered that he was accustomed to telling the tale, 360 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,560 I have a letter from one of his former employers which says exactly that, 361 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:47,560 he was always convincing and sincere, and this was commented on by the majority of the numerous people who had subsequent dealings with him. 362 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:53,560 I never knew him remotely even to lose his habitual calmness for his temper. 363 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,560 And despite the fact that I now believe his story to being completely untrue, 364 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,560 it's impossible to dislike him because of this. He was a most likable character. 365 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:10,560 As far as his apparent sincerity went, I had little doubts about this until after having done considerable delving with local people, 366 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,560 the home office, various councils, newspapers and TV stations, 367 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:23,560 he gave what I knew to be absolutely untrue answers to questions with exactly the same sincerity that he told the story of the sighting and the contact. 368 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,560 This by itself of course, does not necessarily mean he was telling lies all the time, 369 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,560 but it does mean that it was absolutely no yardstick for measuring one or the other. 370 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:39,560 As I've said, he was a very likable person, and in my own opinion now he was more sinned against than sinning, 371 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:47,560 since one of his character traits was that he never used to like to go against what other people said or did for fear of offending them. 372 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,560 And I think this trait was exploited and was what embroiled him in the contact story in the first place. 373 00:35:53,560 --> 00:36:01,560 Brian died on the 24th of June 1967 of a brain tumour, which in itself automatically gives rise to controversy. 374 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:12,560 All I can say is this, no two people, either specialists or laymen, have entirely agreed on actually on how long he'd had that brain tumour or exactly how it would have affected him. 375 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:19,560 Obviously those who favour the contact being true would like to see it as being caused by the sorcerer in some way. 376 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,560 Those who are sceptical were more than likely to be at the other way round. 377 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:36,560 As far as this angle is concerned, it's really impossible to tell either way, which is why I myself form no baseless conclusions at all on this particular and most unfortunate aspect of the case. 378 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:47,560 Well, let's now turn to Gerald Aspin. I haven't mentioned him up to now this evening, but at the time of the sighting he was treasurer of the Exeter Astronomical Society, 379 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:56,560 and it was he who took away for examination the pieces that Brian allegedly picked up and it was he from whom we finally retrieved them. 380 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:06,560 Gerald, to say the least, is a most unpredictable character. It has been suggested he was responsible for the entire hopes and this must just fly within the realm of possibility, 381 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,560 but I regard this possibility now as very slender indeed. 382 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:18,560 It's also been stated that his own room was a UFO sanctuary. This is nonsense, as I've been in his room on several occasions. 383 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:27,560 And while since he is interested in UFOs he clearly has quite a number of books, magazines and in his case models, which is quite proficient at making. 384 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:34,560 He also has quite a large proportion of books, magazines and models connected with other subjects as well. 385 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:41,560 Well, as I say, Gerald is a character on his own. He's about 2026 or 27 now I think. 386 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:49,560 Some of you may remember he once appeared at a Buford meeting dressed as a Venusian, complete with space costume and wig. 387 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:55,560 He's also presented himself at warm in Stoffer a Skywatch dressed as a German officer. 388 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,560 Quite logical since he believes himself to be one, reincarnated. 389 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:08,560 He also believes himself to be a reincarnation of Christ, of Oliver Cromwell, which is a puppet hole, I think, and of Mantell. 390 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:16,560 This apart from the doubtful honour of considering me to be both Satan and a reincarnated Oliver Cromwell too. 391 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:23,560 All I can say is that someone either up or down there must be having a hell of a time with their bookkeeping. 392 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:35,560 As this means that both he and I are reincarnations of the same person at the same time, as well as he having been reissued with Mantell's soul, ego, psyche or whatever you like to call it before he died. 393 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaking as an auditor myself, I'd hate to have to try and sort that lot out. 394 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:50,560 Gerald also had the unfortunate habit of suddenly coming up from Exeter, he may still have it for all I know, and arriving on one's doorstep for reasons only known to himself. 395 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:58,560 At times, unfortunately, like 12 o'clock midnight, 3 o'clock in the morning, and just as well when he's getting up about half past six. 396 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:07,560 I know it means he only sufferer in this regard, several others have experienced his attentions, more unwelcome ones than have been thrust on me in some cases. 397 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:16,560 It's typical of him that when a friend of mine met him and said, glad to meet you, his reply was, that remains to be seen. 398 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,560 Actually, a perfectly true statement, though somewhat unexpected. 399 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:35,560 Now the two remaining people I shall talk about, and refer to, are our mad scientist friend, the Scotty Newton and Gary Byers, the other alleged contactee in the Scotty's and Mystery, but firstly Scotty. 400 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:45,560 We first came across him through being introduced by a friend who said that this tackwitch had two claims to possess pieces of Mantell's plane, so we wrote to him and arranged an appointment. 401 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:52,560 As I said a couple of years ago here, this he claimed to be descended from Sir Isaac's Newton. 402 00:39:52,560 --> 00:40:07,560 In fact, I think he actually says so on this tape that I've got with me, that he claims we descended by an unbroken line of antecedents, all of course visitors, which presents one or two problems, or one of two skeletons as well for that matter, 403 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,560 as I spent a whole afternoon researching into Sir Isaac's life history and found he'd never married. 404 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:23,560 I gather that our friend is now saying that this was a misunderstanding and he really meant he was descended from Sir Isaac's half brother, cousin or some other such a conveniently untraceable relative. 405 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:32,560 Well Scotty himself lives not far from Finsbury Park station, he claims to be well over 70 but looks considerably younger. 406 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,560 He is a quite impressive build with a large roundish face and a hint of a moustache. 407 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:49,560 He has a beautiful American accent, he'll hear it later on, and he usually pads to the door to meet you, dressed in white overalls, complete with pencils, pens, slide rules etc in the top pocket. 408 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:59,560 He'll then invite you in and invite you to hear all about his laboratory, computer, electronic brain, radio telescope, you name it he'll tell you he's got it. 409 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:19,560 He'll enrich your evening with stories of encounters with the FBI, CIA, MI5, Interpol, Police, UFO personalities, he'll tell you all about his charitable works, his coin collections, his expeditions into Siberia, Cambodia, the Middle East and elsewhere. 410 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:34,560 He'll hear all about his and his group's remarkable scientific discoveries, how he broke the codes that the Russians and the Americans use in their satellites and probes, and his consequently imposition of all the information himself, these and the hundred other things he'll tell you about. 411 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:47,560 So at one point you always have to bear in mind though, or he'll become nasty. That is, that since it's a form of game to him, you must never contradict him. In fact you have to go along with him all the time. 412 00:41:47,560 --> 00:42:03,560 The only trouble is that as I say, although a serious one to him it is a game. That is a game you have to play according to his rules. Which makes it extremely difficult but because you don't know what they are in the first place, and in any case he changes them as he goes along. 413 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,560 Things seem to be somewhat confused, so believe. 414 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:19,560 After the first time he would never again allow us to see the pieces which so exactly fitted our own, despite repeated requests. They were always at the bank, or with his solicitors. 415 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:26,560 As I've said, it's my opinion that these were planted on him so that we might produce ours at the appropriate time to matter them. 416 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:37,560 I'll be playing a tape of his after the break as I said, but you might possibly be interested in one, two excerpts from his letters. I've got one or two here, and I think I'll sit down to read them. 417 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:48,560 These are two quotes from two letters, way back in June 1966, and they'll show you the sort of thing you can expect from him. 418 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,560 Quote. He's talking about the pieces we brought to him, you see. 419 00:42:53,560 --> 00:43:01,560 He says, however, we've enlisted a friend of ours who is a ballistic expert at the yard, and we should have his report back any day now. 420 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:10,560 We've taken pictures of the 332nd inch gear of the parts you left here, and we've taken pictures of the top side of the autocontrum which is in our position. 421 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,560 With these negatives we place them into our special projector. The markings fit perfectly. 422 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,560 We've cleaned the parts you left here and compared the dirt with the dirt analysis of ours. 423 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:25,560 So far everything is positive. As for the metal, they are one and the same. 424 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:35,560 You shall have the full analysis, stress, vinyl strength, tensile strength, spectroscopic analysis, as well as the chemical analysis report in full. 425 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,560 That was from one letter, and this is from another. 426 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,560 The analysis has been completed to the most minute area of the parts you've brought to my home. 427 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:52,560 They have now been checked and rechecked by different physicists, and we've gone so far as to have the laboratories at Cambridge to make some analysis. 428 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,560 The Cambridge laboratories found exactly as we did to the decimal point. 429 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:08,560 Now, first of all, you were not aware to my knowledge that the Mantel craft disintegrated due to a beam of light, or a laser, laser, double proton or something similar, that that was the cause of Mantel's death. 430 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,560 This was beyond a shadow of a doubt now. That was a favourite phrase of his incidentally. 431 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:27,560 To the most rigid examination of the parts you've brought to my home for analysis, we found that at least five places where the unit produced signs of disintegration, you can now see the places with your naked eye. 432 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:33,560 Secondly, they've been marked. He very often puts secondly without putting a firstly. 433 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:41,560 Last but not least, there's a hell of a lot of this loss actually, we found red dust and also cream coloured dust. 434 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:47,560 The first is the dust which comes from the red bed formation which lies just above the Cambrian periods. 435 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:52,560 We do not have any dust of this kind in England. It can only be found in the USA. 436 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:59,560 Now, the second type of dust derived from the Dorsan Arcos formation, and again this is only found in the middle west of the USA. 437 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,560 The Dorsan Arcos formation lies above the Pellyshyale formation. 438 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:09,560 The chemical analysis of the pieces you've brought to my home are identical with the parts I have here. 439 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:16,560 As you know, I procured these parts myself at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and in brackets, I'm distant from Fort Knox actually. 440 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:23,560 There's so much more to say, I think it best used to come to my home and we'll discuss the matter as to the port. 441 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,560 There is no charge for our services. 442 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:32,560 Well, that's probably enough to give you some idea of what this particular gentleman was like. 443 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:39,560 So I'll pass on to the final person, Gary Byers, or Myers, as he was called in the Skoritan Mystery. 444 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,560 In an episode before I do, it occurs to me that some of you may well be thinking, 445 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,560 OK, this trip is talking a lot about hopes and the Skoritan Mystery. 446 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:53,560 What about those odd tape messages of his then, of those hopes, too? 447 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,560 To which my answer would be, in a sense, I think this could well be so. 448 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,560 Oh, certainly not a conscious one on my part. 449 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:09,560 I'm going to spend very little time on these, since even in the book, I made it quite plain that I considered they were a doubtful, euthological significance. 450 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:17,560 That view I still maintain, as do I also maintain various possible explanations suggested in the Skoritan Mystery. 451 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:22,560 Perhaps one or two of them now seem more likely than others, but that is all. 452 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,560 However, to Gary Byers. 453 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:33,560 Now, Gary had allegedly, at any rate, a number of source of experiences which were related in detail in the Skoritan Mystery. 454 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:39,560 As I had been present myself on one occasion, and it was thought there was a possible connection with the Bryant case. 455 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:46,560 Anyway, Gary's first experience was at the Green at Tadeon Boys, where, when, from where he was parked, 456 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:52,560 he saw a dazzling bright, igloo-shaped object about the size of his car, only about 15 yards away. 457 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:58,560 He turned his car in a wide circle to get a better view of the thing, and as he did so, the thing vanished. 458 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,560 This was on January 4th, 1965. 459 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:06,560 Several other people reported seeing new folks at night, but not on the ground. 460 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:13,560 Well, his next experience was on Monday, April 24th, 1966, when he was in his bedroom on the point of going to bed, 461 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:19,560 and he heard a voice inside his head, urging him to go to this self-same spot the following morning. 462 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,560 It was a man's voice speaking in a flat tone, he told us. 463 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:31,560 Well, he went to the Green. He sat on a log there, and at about hot-boson nine, a small, silver-y black egg-shaped disc appeared 464 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,560 and hovered a few hundred feet overhead. 465 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:41,560 He again heard the voice, which told him he'd been directed there for reassurance, and the voice also made a reference to Georgia Daneskip. 466 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:47,560 A few weeks afterwards, Gary was going to see Ron Caswell, who lived at Harlow, 467 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:55,560 and Ron Caswell, if I get that is, he was going along with his engine cut out in a lay-by as he was approaching Harlow. 468 00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:01,560 He went into the lay-by, and as he was peering under the bonnet, the voice said, 469 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,560 having trouble, and don't you recognise my voice? 470 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,560 And there was a man behind Gary who went on to say, 471 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,560 there'll be something big on at Everly on Wednesday Sunday, that's west, get some people down there. 472 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:18,560 He walked away, Gary turned back to the engine, and when he looked up again, the man had vanished. 473 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:24,560 Well, Gary told Ron Caswell about this, and Ron did get a party down there, about two dozen, including myself. 474 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:30,560 There, being Everly in Wiltshire, between Amesbury and Devises. Gary, of course, also came. 475 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:36,560 Clearly, the implication was that there'd be some sort of fly-over, or landing always assuming that Gary was telling the truth. 476 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,560 Well, it was a sunny day, and absolutely nothing happened until about 4.15, 477 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:46,560 when Gary, who was walking with Ron Caswell away from the others, suddenly put his hands to his head and fell down. 478 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:51,560 Afterward, Sangit heard the voice again, very loudly, and he said, it had said, 479 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:55,560 we are coming in over the big stones, give us a guiding light. 480 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,560 The big stones, being an obvious reference to Stonehenge, some 15 miles away, 481 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:05,560 and the guiding light was provided on and off by the car's headlamps when dusk arrived. 482 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,560 But, as is not at all unusual, nothing happened. 483 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,560 At a later meeting with Gary, this isn't mentioned in the Scottish Amestria incidentally, 484 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:19,560 he gave the name of the man, or the supposed name of the man, that he'd seen at the car, 485 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,560 but also apparently he'd seen someone later as well. 486 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:31,560 Now, he told us that the name of this man, who was an extraterrestrial, was Seacris, S-E-C-R-I-S. 487 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,560 Well, I'll finish on the following note and leave you in mid-air. 488 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,560 Not too far up though, I hope. 489 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:43,560 Anyway, some months later still, Gary produced a photograph of a landed sorcerer at the Green at Tate and Boyce, 490 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,560 supposed to have been taken subsequently as an incidentally and so on. 491 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:53,560 Well, I haven't seen this photo, but all those who have, including those who fully accepted the truth of Gary's experiences, 492 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,560 say that this is one of the most obvious fakes they've ever seen, 493 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:02,560 and the word space hoax were being freely banded about in this connection too. 494 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:09,560 But one final point here, which, so far as I'm aware, is unknown up till now to anyone else, and it's this. 495 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,560 Gary had told us all along he was very keen on pop music. 496 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:19,560 In fact, he himself played in a group, and he could rattle off the names of those in pop groups like nobody's business. 497 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:25,560 Now, you'll remember that I said he told us that the name of his alleged visitor was Seacris. 498 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,560 Spelled, S-E-C-R-I-S. 499 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,560 Well, I was walking along in Catford one evening, and there were a lot of small posters advertising various events, 500 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,560 one of which caught my eye. 501 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:42,560 This gave the name of a pop group I'd never heard before who were performing at a local club or a local park. 502 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:47,560 And after their name, it said, vocals by Seacris. 503 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,560 Well, a coincidence? I'll leave you to judge. 504 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,560 And they're all finished, for now.